Java/Oracle or MicroSoft

"Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
>
>"Jesse" <ym8@fiservchicago.com> wrote:
>>
>>I am a programmer analyst in a 300-people company. Somehow we are in the
>middle
>>of deciding which future direction to go, Java/Oracle or Microsoft(VB,
VC++,
>>SQL Server, MTS, IIS). I need to provide "unbiased" opinions to the managers
>>in writing next week. Could anyone tell me where to find good articles
about
>>this? Or if you are experienced, what would you think? Thanks a lot.
>>
>>
>>Jesse
>>
>
>Well, if you go Microsoft, you have a one-company development platform,
whereas
>Java technologies are available from multiple vendors.
>
>If you go MS, you have the option of COM/VB/COM+, which is basically all
>going away over time according to Microsoft, or the option of the new C#/DOTNET
>stuff, which isn't here yet. Or you can use Java which has been around
a
>long time. The Dotnet stuff looks and smells a heck of a lot like Java,
>BTW.
>
>As for Oracle, it is ubiquitous, but ultimately if you just use the plain-vanilla
>DB functionality you could substitute another RDBMS system. Or you could
>use Oracle-specific extensions and get tied into a single vendor, but have
>more functionality.
>
>At my current client, we are going Oracle-specific and Java for our platforms.
>
>Matthew Cromer
>President, SDA Consulting, Inc.

Gee, when I think of JAVA, the vendor SUN seems to come to mind and I can't
think of any others supporting it. I do agree with matthew on the Oracle
stuff. If your company uses Unix as a primary platform, your options will
likely come to it. However I will tell you that I am in a Unix based company
that allowed us to bring in NT, SQL, IIS, Backoffice, and let use develop
ASP based web pages using these technologies. Given the same spec to build,
the Unix based team choose a derivative of COBOL and JAVA apps while we choose
ASP, VB, C++ and IIS. We did the production at 150k over six months while
they were cut off after three years and 20 million. We are still building
today and have the fastest user response development time in the whole company.
My development team all have the awards to prove. At the very basic level
of programming, compare this: JAVA is a compiled language and ASP is an interpreted
language. What that means is JAVA SHOULD run faster (although it does not)
and when you change a JAVA app, if it is server side, you must make the server
unavailable to users while you install your updates. On the ASP server, you
can change apps and web pages ON THE FLY. Users seldom know that we are programming
in lines adjacent to where they just hit if we are smart about what we do.
What kind of pages are these you ask: ENGINEERING FORMULAS and GRAPHS. Food
for thought.

Java/Oracle or MicroSoft

"Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
>
>"****" <notofyourbusiness@sowhat.com> wrote:
>
>>Gee, when I think of JAVA, the vendor SUN seems to come to mind and I can't
>>think of any others supporting it.
>
>Are you kidding?
>
>IBM writes an IDE, Sun writes an IDE, Oracle writes an IDE, there is also
>Codewarrior, Visual Cafe, the . There are several FREE IDEs available.
>
>As for application servers, again you have SUN, IBM, Oracle, BEA, and dozens
>of others including free ones.
>
>HP has a java Clone called Chai.
>
> I do agree with matthew on the Oracle
>>stuff. If your company uses Unix as a primary platform, your options will
>>likely come to it. However I will tell you that I am in a Unix based company
>>that allowed us to bring in NT, SQL, IIS, Backoffice, and let use develop
>>ASP based web pages using these technologies. Given the same spec to build,
>>the Unix based team choose a derivative of COBOL and JAVA apps while we
>choose
>>ASP, VB, C++ and IIS. We did the production at 150k over six months while
>>they were cut off after three years and 20 million.
>
>Often a small team can build software where a much larger team fails. This
>doesn't depend on the tool.
>
>
> We are still building
>>today and have the fastest user response development time in the whole
company.
>>My development team all have the awards to prove. At the very basic level
>>of programming, compare this: JAVA is a compiled language and ASP is an
>interpreted
>>language. What that means is JAVA SHOULD run faster (although it does not)
>>and when you change a JAVA app, if it is server side, you must make the
>server
>>unavailable to users while you install your updates. On the ASP server,
>you
>>can change apps and web pages ON THE FLY. Users seldom know that we are
>programming
>>in lines adjacent to where they just hit if we are smart about what we
do.
>>What kind of pages are these you ask: ENGINEERING FORMULAS and GRAPHS.
Food
>>for thought.
>
>Ever hear of JSP? It works like ASP but with Java, so your whole argument
>above is countered by the existence of an identical dynamic compiling scenario
>available for Java. Not that I think ASP nor JSP is the best way to write
>dynamic web pages, mind you.
>
>Matthew Cromer
>

I am a Microsoft person by trade, but over the last year I have developed
in java using Visual Age by IBM and Weblogic server by BEA. Jolt taling to
Tuxedo and Tuxedo talking to our Oracle 8i backend.

We are developing in servlets and Enterprise Java beans.

All I have to say on the subject are :

a) If using Unix then Oracle is your man for the database.
If using NT then I prefer SQL Server, but I just got a big presentation
on Oracle 9i and its got a lot of features that would make me thing again
about Oracle on NT in the future.

b) I have started to love web development, but the issue of weather to use
ASP, JSP, servlets etc etc is still up in the air.
We opted to use both ASP and JSP, some advantages in both areas.

c) We are using BEA web logic server for the java classes, but still using
Microsoft Internet Information Server for static html. (Much better at it)...We
are able to proxy through to the Java classes.

Final Thoughts

To sum up, I have design systems using both sides of the coin and I could
make most things work very well in either technologies, BUT heres my verdict...

1) Use Microsoft if you want a faster learning curve and a lot better connectivity
throught the products. (I know some problems still occur but its still mostly
there). Plus I find it a lot cheaper in the purchasing and cost of the development
staff.

2) Use Java/JSP (Non Microsoft) if you want to get into pure Object Oriented
system design.
Plus everyone like oracle are building there systems to use Java throughtout.
You can even write JAVA stored procedures in the new version of Oracle database.
(And they are supplying a Oracle Web server/middle tier based on the Apatche
web server).

Robert Beck, MCSD.