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Another C# article: "C# (C Sharp) Part 2: Plugging Into The .NET With MSIL"

I earlier "spammed" a few Usenet and Microsoft newsgroups with a link to an
article I had written regarding C#. I discovered that much of the article
was inaccurate, and after doing further research and questioning I have
posted a follow-up article. Forgive me, but I felt the need to set the
record straight.

http://www.planetspooge.com/Programming/articles/-csharp2msil.htm

Thanks,
Jon
[427 byte] By [Jon Davis] at [2007-11-9 18:21:01]
# 1 Re: Another C# article: "C# (C Sharp) Part 2: Plugging Into The .NET With MSIL"
Jon -

Thanks for the update. I'm not sure you've thought through everything yet,
but at least you've gotten more facts. Regarding:

"The Java platform supports only the Java language; .NET supports only MSIL,
but which can be generated by an unlimited number of higher-level languages,
including C#, Visual Basic, even Eiffel and COBOL."

You do realize that since Java is bytecode interpreted, any front end
language can be used to generate those bytecodes -- even VB. That no one has
seen an advantage in doing this, doesn't mean the platform can't do it.

- Jim
Jim VanHook at 2007-11-11 22:29:45 >
# 2 Re: Another C# article: "C# (C Sharp) Part 2: Plugging Into The .NET With MSIL"
In fact there is an implementation of VB (including all standard components
and ADO) that generates pure Java bytecode http://www.halcyonsoft.com/.
Unfortunately they stopped provide it as an independent product, but the
reason is not technical.

>C# is also not interpreted as bytecode like Java is. .... Once this
translation occurs,
>the executed code is native." Essentially, while the scenario appears to be
similar
>to Java classes grinding through a JIT compiler, the final JIT compilation
is in fact 100%
>processor-native, whereas Java's JIT results are not.

Again there is an implementation of JVM that works in the same manner like
dotNET. I mean it generates the native code just once when you run a Java
code at first time.

Michael
http://www.2lkit.com

"Jim VanHook" <hook@removethis.omtool.com> wrote in message
news:397f3a62$1@news.dev-archive.com...
> Jon -
>
> Thanks for the update. I'm not sure you've thought through everything yet,
> but at least you've gotten more facts. Regarding:
>
> "The Java platform supports only the Java language; .NET supports only
MSIL,
> but which can be generated by an unlimited number of higher-level
languages,
> including C#, Visual Basic, even Eiffel and COBOL."
>
> You do realize that since Java is bytecode interpreted, any front end
> language can be used to generate those bytecodes -- even VB. That no one
has
> seen an advantage in doing this, doesn't mean the platform can't do it.
>
> - Jim
>
>
>
Michael Sashnikov at 2007-11-11 22:30:40 >
# 3 Re: Another C# article: "C# (C Sharp) Part 2: Plugging Into The .NET With MSIL"
Jim VanHook <hook@removethis.omtool.com> wrote in message
news:397f3a62$1@news.dev-archive.com...
> Jon -
>
> Thanks for the update. I'm not sure you've thought through everything yet,
> but at least you've gotten more facts. Regarding:
>
> "The Java platform supports only the Java language; .NET supports only
MSIL,
> but which can be generated by an unlimited number of higher-level
languages,
> including C#, Visual Basic, even Eiffel and COBOL."
>
> You do realize that since Java is bytecode interpreted, any front end
> language can be used to generate those bytecodes -- even VB. That no one
has
> seen an advantage in doing this, doesn't mean the platform can't do it.

I did think about that, actually, before posting the article. But
truthfully, the Java VM was built for the Java language. It might be able
to run other languages, but it won't support them. "Support" goes deeper
than just being able to execute stuff. :)

Point taken, though.

Jon
Jon Davis at 2007-11-11 22:31:49 >
# 4 Re: Another C# article: "C# (C Sharp) Part 2: Plugging Into The .NET With MSIL"
"Jon Davis" <jon.davis@REMOVE.ME.ebalance.com> wrote in message
news:397f5a85$1@news.dev-archive.com...
> I did think about that, actually, before posting the article. But
> truthfully, the Java VM was built for the Java language. It might be able
> to run other languages, but it won't support them. "Support" goes deeper
> than just being able to execute stuff. :)

Actually The Java bytecode "language" was originally written for
SmallTalk, and Sun just used it for Java. I'm told there are SmallTalk
compilers out there that still use it.
--
Truth,
James Curran
http://www.NJTheater.com (Professional)
http://www.NovelTheory.com (Personal)
http://www.BrandsForLess.com (Day Job)
James Curran at 2007-11-11 22:32:49 >
# 5 Re: Another C# article: "C# (C Sharp) Part 2: Plugging Into The .NET With MSIL"
Jeffrey Richter, a MSDN columnist, a consultant worked for MS NGWS project
has a forthcoming book on NGWS Programming. 3 of its' chapters was given out
in PDC.

The more I read it, the more I feel that .NET concept is basically JAVARIZE
everything after
all the marketing stuff and technical detail. These whole namespace plus IL
(right, not
bytecode, what's the big deal) language, none registry deployment have been
just what
others being done for years. The only bonus I guess is this
assemblies/manifest which
self describe an EXE.

COM is legacy now. VB has been gear up like Java. ASP+ is then VB/VBS +
HTML + some tag, I can see where it goes, something like JSP, one of the
counterpart of ASP but from Sun/IBM. Even ADO+ is not OLEDB based anymore
(correct me here).

The sad part is again we realized (proved by .NET) that MS has used entire
industry
for their technology conceptual beta testing for years (hint, OLD, COM, VB),
we just
cannot resist to fall in their trap again, thanks to MS's superior
productivity and marketing.

I guess nobody is perfect, so is MS.

"Jon Davis" <jond_123@REMOVE.ME.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:397ea948@news.dev-archive.com...
> I earlier "spammed" a few Usenet and Microsoft newsgroups with a link to
an
> article I had written regarding C#. I discovered that much of the article
> was inaccurate, and after doing further research and questioning I have
> posted a follow-up article. Forgive me, but I felt the need to set the
> record straight.
>
> http://www.planetspooge.com/Programming/articles/-csharp2msil.htm
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
>
>
Thank Yu at 2007-11-11 22:33:53 >
# 6 Re: Another C# article: "C# (C Sharp) Part 2: Plugging Into The .NET With MSIL"
Here's another example:

JPython uses a compiler (written in Java) to produce Java bytecodes from
Python source code

See:

http://www.jpython.org

--
Antony Andrews

Jim VanHook wrote in message <397f3a62$1@news.dev-archive.com>...
>Jon -
>
>Thanks for the update. I'm not sure you've thought through everything yet,
>but at least you've gotten more facts. Regarding:
>
>"The Java platform supports only the Java language; .NET supports only
MSIL,
>but which can be generated by an unlimited number of higher-level
languages,
>including C#, Visual Basic, even Eiffel and COBOL."
>
>You do realize that since Java is bytecode interpreted, any front end
>language can be used to generate those bytecodes -- even VB. That no one
has
>seen an advantage in doing this, doesn't mean the platform can't do it.
>
>- Jim
>
>
>
Antony Andrews at 2007-11-11 22:34:46 >